[cf-dev] Propose removing --no-start from cf push in CLI v7

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[cf-dev] Propose removing --no-start from cf push in CLI v7

Zach Robinson
Hey all,

We asked for some feedback regarding the use of the --no-start flag some time ago. As a result, we're proposing a change to push in the upcoming CLI v7.  In the linked doc we've described what the change is and why we want to make it.  We'd love to hear any feedback in comments on the doc.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OPJSUYXMQMtzZmVdnvwI4NiXE0xp4tuLxO3fhhXtGwI/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks,
Zach Robinson CAPI Project Lead and Abby Chau CLI Project Lead
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Re: [cf-dev] Propose removing --no-start from cf push in CLI v7

Dr Nic Williams
I’ve used —no-start to create an new app so I can bind services, then push to start. Is there a different way to do this without —no-start (and before you’ve started creating an optional manifest)

Nic

 

From: 20002216260n behalf of
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2018 4:29 am
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [cf-dev] Propose removing --no-start from cf push in CLI v7
 
Hey all,

We asked for some feedback regarding the use of the --no-start flag some time ago. As a result, we're proposing a change to push in the upcoming CLI v7.  In the linked doc we've described what the change is and why we want to make it.  We'd love to hear any feedback in comments on the doc.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OPJSUYXMQMtzZmVdnvwI4NiXE0xp4tuLxO3fhhXtGwI/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks,
Zach Robinson CAPI Project Lead and Abby Chau CLI Project Lead
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Re: [cf-dev] Propose removing --no-start from cf push in CLI v7

Norm Abramovitz
In reply to this post by Zach Robinson
Hi

It seems to me that you are making the developer experience more painful with your new interface   I wondering why you did not consider using parameters to cf push instead.   The first parameter would be a stop after parameter to stop after a phase.   

--stop-after build|droplet|staging|start

If you want to start at a particular phase versus starting with a build, then have a parameter starting at a phase.

--start-at build|droplet|staging|start

Most developers would still use cf push as it is now and only those people that need the new features will use them.  Also, you maintain the readability of the cli interface.

Now the no-start parameter can be maintained for backward compatibility.



On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 1:29 PM Zach Robinson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hey all,

We asked for some feedback regarding the use of the --no-start flag some time ago. As a result, we're proposing a change to push in the upcoming CLI v7.  In the linked doc we've described what the change is and why we want to make it.  We'd love to hear any feedback in comments on the doc.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OPJSUYXMQMtzZmVdnvwI4NiXE0xp4tuLxO3fhhXtGwI/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks,
Zach Robinson CAPI Project Lead and Abby Chau CLI Project Lead



--
Norman Abramovitz
Technical Director
Stark & Wayne, LLC



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Re: [cf-dev] Propose removing --no-start from cf push in CLI v7

Zach Robinson
In reply to this post by Dr Nic Williams
Hi Dr Nic,

Yes this is a proposal to maintain that workflow, but with a slightly different command set. The title is bad.  Should have called it Proposal to replace --no-start.

-Zach
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Re: [cf-dev] Propose removing --no-start from cf push in CLI v7

Zach Robinson
In reply to this post by Norm Abramovitz
Hi Norm,

That's an interesting possible UX. Part of this process is to gather feedback before making a change and to potentially alter the proposal to better fit everybody's needs.  Thanks for sharing this.
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Re: [cf-dev] Propose removing --no-start from cf push in CLI v7

Abby Chau
Hi everyone,

Thanks to everyone who gave us feedback regarding the `--no-start` flag on the V7 CLI. Apologies it's taken so long to close the loop. We appreciate your feedback (and suggestions for alternative solutions) - they were all valuable to inform[1] our decisions. 

We wanted to circle back to let you know that after consideration we've decided to re-implement the standard workflow for `--no-start` on `cf push` on the V7 CLI (we are still far from releasing a GA version but have been releasing V7 beta CLI releases).  

Given the ubiquitous of usage and the complicated use cases for `--no-start`, we felt it was valuable to reimplement the standard functionality as long as we were also able to support other complicated deployment workflows, including granular commands and rollbacks. 

We don't plan on making changes to the standard no-start workflow: `cf push app --no-start` --> apply config --> `cf start` however we do plan on making changes to `cf start` to enable more complicated workflows in the following ways:
  • if a user has rolled back an app, `cf start` will start the app using the same droplet they've roll back 
  • if a user has rolled back their app, and they want the latest droplet, they can use a new `--latest` flag on `cf start`. 
The changes to `cf start` and the roll back functionality does not currently exist on V7 beta CLI but we hope to start work on them soon. 

To read more about what I've detailed above (including what "standard --no-start workflow" even means), and the new deployment workflows we plan to build on V7 beta CLI, please read and comment on Request for Feedback: New Deployment Workflows With CLI Options. As always, your feedback is valuable. 

Please do not hesitate to get in touch if you have any questions or additional feedback by:
  • replying to this email
  • commenting on the above doc
  • reaching out on #Cloud Foundry Slack 
Best,

Abby
CF CLI, Product Manager


[1] I've included screenshots of some of the CLI command modeling we did to give you an idea of how much consideration we gave to this subject matter, particularly given your feedback on the various use cases for running `--no-start` with `cf push`.

On Fri, Oct 5, 2018 at 10:15 AM Zach Robinson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Norm,

That's an interesting possible UX. Part of this process is to gather feedback before making a change and to potentially alter the proposal to better fit everybody's needs.  Thanks for sharing this.

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